I'd argue that, due to their all-around games, Joe Morgan was the better player.

But Rogers Hornsby is a much better broadcaster.

With that resolved, I looked at their post-season play. Both performed below average during the post-season, but Hornsby was .400 points below his lifetime OPS during 12 WS games. Joe Morgan, a lifetime .819 OPS, dropped, but only to .782 in 23 WS games.

Why did Hornsby perform so poorly in the World Series? Did he lack moxie?

All that said, if Jackie Robinson had joined the majors at 19 instead of 28, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Well, maybe we would.

2: Great point about Robinson. I do wonder if he would have put up numbers in those lost early years that would have been comparable to his actual record, however. I mean, even without segregation he would have lost a few of those years to WW II anyway, but even beyond that, I have gotten the impression in reading opinions about him from older Negro League guys that he was not exactly the most polished baseball player in his early years. Unfortunately, I don't recall exactly where I saw that line of thinking, but I did find the below quote from Buck O'Neil on a PBS site (http://tinyurl.com/frldk):

"Jackie was the ideal person for [breaking the color line] because I knew fellas at that time that were better than Jackie, but I don't think they would have taken the insults and things like that."

If you're doing the "what if there was no segregation" thing, then I think there's an excellent chance that a young Robinson would have concentrated on baseball as a youngster much more than he actually did. And he probably would have turned his raw baseball skills into playing ability much sooner than he ended up doing. Baseball was THE sport back then -- it was the one everybody wanted to play, and the only team sport in which even white athletes could consistently make a comfortable living. Had segregation not existed, I think there's every reason to believe Robinson would have gravitated more toward baseball than football or track & field, and thus have been a major league star in his early twenties.

So Robinson had essentially no incentive whatsoever to concentrate on developing his baseball skills before August 28, 1945, the day Rickey signed him. The fact that he learned how to play baseball in his late 20s -- which virtually nobody else in history has ever done -- leads me to wonder whether he might not have reached even greater heights as a ballplayer if he'd started learning at age 15 or so.

If Jay Jaffe were here, he'd apply his JAWS system as follows:

(JAWS is the average between peak, the best seven WARP3 scores, and the career WARP3 score).

Hornsby: 97.4 Peak, 165.9 Career = 131.7
Morgan: 85.5 Peak, 166.8 Career = 126.2

2 take another look at Hornsby's 16.0 WARP3 in 1924, the year he hit 424/507/696. Hornsby's two best were 16.0 and 14.6. Morgan's two best were 14.2 and 14.2.

I put Hornsby in my starting lineup and Morgan on my bench, but you can't go wrong with either one. If we reanimate these players and play a 162 game season in a league of alien teams from one of those solar systems we've just discovered, it might make a difference, and take Hornsby's 1924 performance over Morgan's 1975.

And, Hornsby, today, is a better broadcaster. 1 (Thank you!)

But Hornsby doesn't make me grind my teeth in anger on a weekly basis.

Ever work with anyone who had great skills but in other ways was a major pain in the ass? That person leaves the office and you wonder why you ever thought he was so great. That's Hornsby. He was a great player who played on teams that were relieved to be rid of him. Nobody ever wanted to get rid of Joe Morgan.

The ballplayer, not the broadcaster.

I get at least a little bit of a thrill just to think 'Hey, that's JOE MORGAN...maybe the best second baseman EVER' when he calls a game. He could speak Klingon for all I care. I can see the bat wagging in my mind and I'm transported to a time when I was 7 years old, thought Dr. J and Julius Erving were two different people, and such a Yankee homer that I was bitter that Johnny Bench was in Krylon ads and not Thurman Munson. Even at age 7 I always put Joe Morgan on my imaginary all-stars. He was that good.

Ha! That reminds me of a time when I thought there were two singers named Bob Dylan (pronounced Die-lan) and Bob "Dillon".

Why does anyone play second base? They are not good enough with the glove to play short and are not good enough with the bat to justify standing at first. That is perhaps too harsh a judgement.

Hornsby and Morgan are the only two worth discussing for g.o.a.t. second basemen. Is this because of the men themselves or because of the nature of their position?

Am I asking a question worth discussing?

This is a nice little list of great second basemen. He chooses Hornsby for greatest. Will history be kind to Roberto Alomar?

As for the g.o.a.t, I think a case has arisen previously in this discussion to at least consider Jackie Robinson in the conversation. Also, some other experts, especially in days of old, put forth Eddie Collins as their all-time guy.

I think Kent's numbers are going to carry him into the Hall.

Joe Posnanski recently touched on second-basemen with a chance at Cooperstown amid extensive HOF predictions on his fantastic blog The Soul of Baseball.

Posnanski's AL predictions:
http://tinyurl.com/2myw9g

And his NL predictions (which include below quote about surprising possibility Rey Durham):
http://tinyurl.com/3y9x23
"Ray Durham. Well, I'm surprised ... the guy has four Hall of Fame Comps on his list, including Joe Morgan, Ryne Sandberg and Paul Molitor. He will be 35 at the end of the season and will probably have 2,000 hits. I don't think he's quite a Hall of Famer, but if he's a good old player, it's not impossible."

The offensive explosion we have seen over the last 15 years will take its toll on a lot of guys. 500 homers will not be good enough for the Hall pretty soon, especially if one is a RF or 1B. If I am wrong, the Hall will be too watered down.

The fact that Big Mac may not go is ridiculous beyond words but may be a sign of things to come.

http://www.nysun.com/article/52199

i always questioned his arm strength but then again they were just clips of him worming up, i never seen clips of him in game situations so i maybe wrong.